Treatment of Acenap(PiPr 2 )(EH 2 ) (Acenap = acenaphthene-5,6-diyl; 1a, E = As; 1b, E = P) with Ph 3 C·BF 4 resulted in hydride abstraction to give [Acenap(PiPr 2 )(EH)][BF 4 ] (2a, E = As; 2b, E = P). These represent the first structurally characterised phosphino/arsino-phosphonium salts with secondary arsine/phosphine groups, as well as the first example of a Lewis base stabilised primary arsenium cation. Compounds 2a and 2b were deprotonated with NaH to afford low co-ordinate species Acenap(PiPr 2 )(E) (3a, E = As; 3b, E = P). This provides an alternative and practical synthetic pathway to the phosphanylidene-σ 4 -phosphorane 3b and provides mechanistic insight into the formation of arsanylidene-σ 4 -phosphorane 3a, indirectly supporting the hypothesis that the previously reported dehydrogenation of 1a occurs via an ionic mechanism.