2004
DOI: 10.1126/science.1091978
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Comment on "Origin of the Superflock of Cichlid Fishes from Lake Victoria, East Africa"

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Cited by 7 publications
(7 citation statements)
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“…Despite strong evidence for late Pleistocene desiccation, and the universal acceptance of it within the geological and paleoclimate communities, debate over the reality of that event still persists among some evolutionary biologists (Fryer, 1997(Fryer, , 2001(Fryer, , 2004Nagl et al, 2000;Seehausen, 2002;Seehausen et al, 2003;Verheyen et al, 2003;Stager et al, 2004). For example, Fryer (2001) claims that the drying out of the lake ''... cannot be treated seriously,' ' Joyce et al (2005) say that the endemic fishes evolved over ''15,000-250,000 years,'' and Abila et al (2004) suggest that Victoria's hundreds of species of endemic cichlids ''...evolved in a recordsetting 100,000 years...'' rather than over the much shorter time period that is clearly indicated by geological evidence.…”
Section: Introductionmentioning
confidence: 99%
“…Despite strong evidence for late Pleistocene desiccation, and the universal acceptance of it within the geological and paleoclimate communities, debate over the reality of that event still persists among some evolutionary biologists (Fryer, 1997(Fryer, , 2001(Fryer, , 2004Nagl et al, 2000;Seehausen, 2002;Seehausen et al, 2003;Verheyen et al, 2003;Stager et al, 2004). For example, Fryer (2001) claims that the drying out of the lake ''... cannot be treated seriously,' ' Joyce et al (2005) say that the endemic fishes evolved over ''15,000-250,000 years,'' and Abila et al (2004) suggest that Victoria's hundreds of species of endemic cichlids ''...evolved in a recordsetting 100,000 years...'' rather than over the much shorter time period that is clearly indicated by geological evidence.…”
Section: Introductionmentioning
confidence: 99%
“…First, we point out that the geological evidence for a complete drying-out of the LV basin ϳ15,000 years ago may not be as unambiguous as suggested by Stager et al (5). An earlier study (7) coauthored by one of the authors of the current comment concluded that "there is no evidence that the lake level fell low enough to confine fishes to refugia in small isolated ponds or around river mouths," and also suggested that the paleolimnological data were not sufficient to suppose that LV "dried up completely or even became highly concentrated."…”
mentioning
confidence: 70%
“…Stager et al (5) further contend that the calibration of the molecular clock we used (12) is inaccurate, citing other molecular phylogenetic work (13) in support of their claim that the LV cichlid species flock is only ϳ14,000 to 16,000 years old. However, all molecular phylogenetic studies-those that were published before (14) the paper by Johnson et al (6) and, more important, those that have been published since (1,13,15,16), including the reference (13) that Stager et al (5) cite to the contrary-agree that the "genetic diversity [of the LV superflock] is considerably older than the 15,000 years that have passed since the lake began to refill" (13). All molecular studies suggest an age of at least 100,000 years for these genetic lineages and, probably, species, in contrast to the claim by Stager et al (5).…”
mentioning
confidence: 98%
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