Let $$\mathcal {I}$$
I
be a meager ideal on $$\mathbf {N}$$
N
. We show that if x is a sequence with values in a separable metric space then the set of subsequences [resp. permutations] of x which preserve the set of $$\mathcal {I}$$
I
-cluster points of x is topologically large if and only if every ordinary limit point of x is also an $$\mathcal {I}$$
I
-cluster point of x. The analogue statement fails for all maximal ideals. This extends the main results in [Topology Appl. 263 (2019), 221–229]. As an application, if x is a sequence with values in a first countable compact space which is $$\mathcal {I}$$
I
-convergent to $$\ell $$
ℓ
, then the set of subsequences [resp. permutations] which are $$\mathcal {I}$$
I
-convergent to $$\ell $$
ℓ
is topologically large if and only if x is convergent to $$\ell $$
ℓ
in the ordinary sense. Analogous results hold for $$\mathcal {I}$$
I
-limit points, provided $$\mathcal {I}$$
I
is an analytic P-ideal.