Operational causality in spacetime

Eckstein, Michał; Horodecki, Paweł; Miller, Tomasz; Horodecki, Ryszard

doi:10.1103/physreva.101.042128

Cited by 8 publications

(9 citation statements)

References 30 publications

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“…Such a notion of causality for probabilities might seem purely formal, but it is in fact coherent with the operational 'no-signalling principle' (see [Popescu, 2014,Brunner et al, 2014 and [Eckstein et al, 2020]). The latter says that no actions or events in a space-time region K can causally influence any measurement statistics outside of the causal future J + (K).…”

Section: Causality Of Probabilitiesmentioning

confidence: 94%

“…the discussion in [Haag, 1996, Section I.1] or [Peres and Terno, 2004]), but in fact it is a general operational concept, not relying on how we eventually model the 'particles' (as well as 'detectors' and 'interactions') -cf. [Eckstein et al, 2020]. Consequently, there are no events on the fundamental level in a probabilistic physical theory.…”

Section: Probabilities In Space-timementioning

confidence: 99%

“…For if they did, the information could be transferred superluminally by orchestrating a protocol, in which an observer in K prepares multiple signal carriers and sends them to another observer outside of J + (K), who can read-out the information from his detection statistics. Such a protocol, when executed by pair of mutually travelling inertial observers, leads to causal loops and consequent logical paradoxes -see [Eckstein et al, 2020] for a detailed discussion.…”

Section: Causality Of Probabilitiesmentioning

confidence: 99%

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Causality and time order -- relativistic and probabilistic aspects

Eckstein¹,

Heller²

2022

Preprint

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We investigate temporal and causal threads in the fabric of contemporary physical theories with an emphasis on empirical and operationalistic aspects. Building on the axiomatization of general relativity proposed by J. Ehlers, F. Pirani and A. Schild (improved by N. Woodhouse) and the global space-time structure elaborated by R. Penrose, S.W. Hawking, B. Carter and others, we argue that the current way of doing relativistic physics presupposes treating time and causality as primitive concepts, neither of them being 'more primitive' than the other. The decision regarding which concepts to assume as primitive and which statements to regard as axioms depends on the choice of the angle at which we contemplate the whole. This standard approach is based on the presupposition that the concept of a point-like particle is a viable approximation. However, this assumption is not supported by a realistic approach to doing physics and, in particular, by quantum theory. We remove this assumption by analysing the recent works by M. Eckstein and T. Miller. They consider the space P(M ) of probability measures on space-time M such that, for an element µ ∈ P(M ), the number µ(K) specifies the probability of the occurrence of some event associated with the space-time region K and the measure µ. In this way, M is not to be regarded as a collection of space-time events, but rather as a support for corresponding probability measures. As shown by Eckstein and Miller, the space P(M ) inherits the causal order from the underlying space-time and facilitates a rigorous notion of a 'causal evolution of probability measures'. We look at the deductive chains creating temporal and causal structures analysed in these works, in order to highlight their operational (or quasi-operational) aspect. This is impossible without taking into account the relative frequencies and correlations observed in relevant experiments.

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Section: Causality Of Probabilitiesmentioning

confidence: 94%

Section: Probabilities In Space-timementioning

confidence: 99%

Section: Causality Of Probabilitiesmentioning

confidence: 99%

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Causality and time order -- relativistic and probabilistic aspects

Eckstein¹,

Heller²

2022

Preprint

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“…The experiment paradox has profound consequences for the philosophy of science, which shall be discussed elsewhere 24 . Nevertheless, from the practical point of view, one may adopt the perspective that "all models are wrong, but some of them are useful."…”

Section: Consequences For Foundations Of Physicsmentioning

confidence: 99%

The experiment paradox in physics

Eckstein¹,

Horodecki²

2019

Preprint

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Modern physics is founded on two mainstays: mathematical modelling and empirical verification. These two assumptions are prerequisite for the objectivity of scientific discourse.Here we show, however, that they are contradictory, leading to the 'experiment paradox'. We reveal that any experiment performed on a physical system is -by necessity -invasive and thus establishes inevitable limits to the accuracy of any mathematical model. We track its manifestations in both classical and quantum physics and show how it is overcome 'in practice' via the concept of environment. We argue that the scientific pragmatism ordains two methodological principles of compressibility and stability.

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“…The concept of an 'effective spacetime' will be discussed in details in a forthcoming work(Eckstein et al 2020) 2 A given operationally defined model is in fact an equivalence class of all models differing in explanations, but agreeing on predictions. An example can be given by any pre-Big-Bang cosmological model, which does not allow the information transfer through the Big Bang hypersurface.…”

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confidence: 99%

The Experiment Paradox in Physics

Eckstein

Horodecki

2020

Found Sci

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Modern physics is founded on two mainstays: mathematical modelling and empirical verification. These two assumptions are prerequisite for the objectivity of scientific discourse. Here we show, however, that they are contradictory, leading to the ‘experiment paradox’. We reveal that any experiment performed on a physical system is—by necessity—invasive and thus establishes inevitable limits to the accuracy of any mathematical model. We track its manifestations in both classical and quantum physics and show how it is overcome ‘in practice’ via the concept of environment. We argue that the unravelled paradox induces a new type of ‘ontic’ underdetermination, which has deep consequences for the methodological foundations of physics.

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Operational causality in spacetime

Cited by 8 publications

References 30 publications

Causality and time order -- relativistic and probabilistic aspects

Causality and time order -- relativistic and probabilistic aspects

The experiment paradox in physics

The Experiment Paradox in Physics

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