This discussion relates to the paper Kelliher et al. (2020) which was presented at the IFoA sessional event held on Monday 7 March 2022.The Moderator (Mr P. D. G. Tompkins, F.I.A.): Welcome to this sessional meeting of the Institute and Faculty of Actuaries (IFoA). I am Peter Tompkins. I am a member of the IFoA Council. This is a sessional meeting which is intended to give the opportunity both for Patrick (Kelliher) to present and discuss his paper on "Dependencies between risks," and for people to make contributions to the paper. This can include a discussion about elements of the paper. It does not have to be in the form of questions to be answered by Patrick (Kelliher), but if you want to comment on a particular aspect of the paper, please feel free to do that.You can let me know if there are aspects you want to discuss so I can determine when best to call you when the time comes for discussion.So, without further ado, let me introduce Patrick Kelliher. Patrick (Kelliher) is a Fellow of the IFoA with more than 30 years of experience, predominantly in the life insurance field and specialises in risk management. First, he was doing that with Scottish Widows and later as head of market risk and asset liability management for Aegon UK before starting up his own business, Crystal Risk Consulting, 10 years ago. He is a Chartered Enterprise Risk Actuary and a member of several of our profession's risk management working parties and has produced papers and articles on a variety of risk topics, including risk classification, operational risk, liquidity risk, and the differences between banking and life insurance risks.Mr P. O. J. Kelliher, F.I.A.: Thank you Peter (Tompkins) and good morning, everybody. I am from a life insurance background. My focus was on Solvency II and meeting the internal model requirements of Solvency II regulations, and in particular, the need to identity the key variables driving dependencies and also the lack of diversification you might see under extreme scenarios.My research is split into two parts. The first one concerns the dependency between market and credit risks. We often have enough data to calculate correlations empirically. The key point I would like to stress about this paper is that empirical correlations are only a starting point. There are many issues with empirical correlations. They provide evidence of the dependency between risks, but they say little about why that dependency exists. I think they are intrinsically backward looking, so they might miss changes in interactions between risks. Also, they sometimes have a problem where risks are normally uncorrelated but may be correlated in stressed conditions. Sometimes, if you are not careful, the empirical correlation measures can simply average out the two states and end up with an unsatisfactory representation of each of them.There are a lot of issues with empirical correlations and for that reason we need an expert judgement overlay to find a suitable answer. This is the key thrust of my paper. In terms of expert overlay, I c...