The Just and the Advantageous in Thucydides: The Case of the Mytilenaian Debate

Abstract

As no passage in Thucydides is more important, so none is more dramatic than the Mytilenaian Debate. Having resolved to punish harshly a rebel city, the Athenians repent and reconsider. Exhorted by Kleon to maintain their original decision and by Diototos to abandon it, the Athenians must scrutinize the relationship between justice and expediency. Diodotos, who professes to argue from interest only, narrowly prevails in the debate. There is, however, much more to his speech than meets the eye. For it proves misleading to say that he is arguing merely from interest—and then, on a deeper level, to say that he is arguing from justice. In fact no passage in Thucydides, including the Melian Dialogue, raises starker questions about the status of political justice.

Tucídides, sobre la mentira: los artificios de la deliberación democrática

“…Los atenienses decidieron en el caso de Corcira motivados por lo que creyeron más conveniente para la ciudad en función de su convicción de la inevitabilidad de la guerra. En el segundo caso, influyó seguramente el arrepentimiento por la que la mayoría creía una decisión injusta (III 36, 4-5;Orwin: 1984). El discurso de Cleón es un alegato duro pero franco, y la réplica de Diódoto -al considerar este orador que defender la causa de la mayoría mitilenea podía hacerle aparecer como abogado de la defección-se apoyó casi exclusivamente en la conveniencia del perdón para el bien futuro del imperio.…”

The Illusion of Power and the Disruption of Moral Norms: Thucydides' Critique of Periclean Policy

“…Euben points out, Diodotus, the advocate of restraint and decency, is compelled by the press of argument and the hubris of imperialism to "defend the more moderate human policy in relentlessly realistic terms that anticipate the Athenian arguments at Melos" (Euben 1990, 180;see Bagby 1994;Orwin 1984;Saxonhouse 1996). This argument is self-defeating in the long run.…”

Machiavellianvirtùand Thucydideanaretē: Traditional Virtue and Political Wisdom in Thucydides

“…It has recently been remarked of Thucydides that he is one of the few writers who still commands the attention of both political scientists and political theorists. 7 This is undoubtedly a consequence of his much-heralded "realism." Thucydides is perhaps the outstanding ancient "realist," and it is on their "realism" (among other things) that thinkers like Machiavelli, Hobbes, and Locke so prided themselves, and urged the superiority of "modern" political philosophy to "ancient."…”