The Place of the Philebus in Plato's Dialogues1

Waterfield, Robin

doi:10.1163/156852880x00160

Cited by 87 publications

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“…50 In maintaining that, in the Philebus, Plato does not treat pleasure as an intrinsic, but solely as a consequential good, I am obviously entering an area of vigorous interpretive controversy. Those who share my view include Evans (2007);Frede (1992), 440, 454;(1993), xliii, lvi, (1996Hampton (1990), 74;Van Riel (1999), 308;and Waterfield (1982), 86, n. 1. Opponents include Carone (2000); Cooper (1999), 160-1;and Irwin (1995), 336.…”

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confidence: 90%

“…However, the passage at 32d9-3b11 might seem to suggest otherwise; Plato writes that nothing prevents the one who chooses the life of wisdom from living in the ahedonic state. Hackforth (1945), 63, n. 2 and Waterfield (1982), 88, n. 1 have suggested that the one choosing such a life must be a god, since it is not possible for humans to live without experiencing pleasure or pain. An alternate response is to note that Plato justifies his claim concerning the possibility of the ahedonic life in terms of the original conditions of the investigation into the choice of lives, the requirement that each life be considered on its own (33b2-4).…”

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“…At the same time, I believe that Plato's position shifts significantly in certain areas: for example, his hostility towards bodily pleasure in the Phaedo is significantly tempered by the time we get to the Laws. For a defense of the late dating of the Philebus, see Frede (1996), 213-16; for a contrary view, see Waterfield (1980). For a more general discussion of the chronology of the dialogues, see, e.g., Brandwood (1992) and Kraut (1992).…”

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Next to Godliness: Pleasure and Assimilation in God in the Philebus

Obdrzalek¹

2012

Apeiron

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Next to Godliness: Pleasure and Assimilation in God in the Philebus

Obdrzalek¹

2012

Apeiron

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“…', and its answer has surprising economy: there is knowledge of various kinds and there is pleasure of various kinds. 27 The dialogue makes tacit use of the distinction between intrinsic and instrumental goods, 28 and like the Gorgias and Republic concludes that there is more than one intrinsic good. However, it also contains important developments of points made in the two earlier dialogues.…”

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“…More is said of virtue later on in this section. 28 Plato is fully aware of the distinction between intrinsic and instrumental goods (see 53e-54c), but he does not emphasize it because he has no interest in instrumental goods as such;…”

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Plato’s Last Words on Pleasure

White¹

2001

The Class. Q.

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In the opinion of George Grote, writing in 1875, Plato's Athenian in the Laws 'recedes from the lofty pretensions of Socrates in the Republic and the Gorgias'. He does this, says Grote, in proclaiming as the fundamental characteristics of human nature: that no man will willingly do anything from which he does not anticipate more pleasure than pain: that every man desires the maximum of pleasure and the minimum of pain, and desires nothing else: that there neither is nor can be any Good apart from Pleasure or superior to Pleasure: that to insist upon a man being just, if you believe that he will obtain more pleasure or less pain from an unjust mode of life, is absurd and inconsistent: that the doctrine which declares the life of pleasure and the life of justice to lead in two distinct paths, is a heresy deserving not only censure but punishment. 1 The Athenian also recedes from the 'lofty pretensions' of the Republic and Gorgias in another point, says Grote. Socrates teaches in those dialogues that justice apart from its natural consequences will suffice per se to make the just man happy: 'per se, that is, even though. .. society misconceive his character and render no justice to him, but heap upon him nothing except obloquy and persecution'. 2 The Athenian recedes from this teaching altogether, continues Grote, and asserts instead the Epicurean doctrine that the just man 'is one who obtains from others that just dealing and that esteem which is his due: and when so conceived, his existence is one of pleasure and happiness'; 3 this, he adds, is the doctrine that Glaucon and Adeimantus in the Republic 'deprecate as unworthy disparagement of justice'. 4 In addition, though incidentally, Grote comments that the doctrine of the Laws 'about pleasure and good approximates more nearly to the Protagoras than to the Gorgias and Philebus', and this comment reinforces and adds interest to his other remarks, because he takes the hedonism of the Protagoras to be intended seriously, and he himself, a member of the circle of Bentham and James Mill, subscribes to its principal tenets. 5 By contrast, in the opinion of Wilamowitz, writing in 1917, Plato has nothing of philosophical interest to say in the Laws, even Aristotle merely thumbing through it as undeserving of closer scrutiny. 6

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On the Composition of Aristotle’s Rhetoric

Fortenbaugh¹

1996

Λhnaika

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The Place of the Philebus in Plato's Dialogues1

Cited by 87 publications

References 0 publications

Next to Godliness: Pleasure and Assimilation in God in the Philebus

Next to Godliness: Pleasure and Assimilation in God in the Philebus

Plato’s Last Words on Pleasure

On the Composition of Aristotle’s Rhetoric

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