2007
DOI: 10.1108/03684920710777414
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Toward Batesonian sociocybernetics: from Naven to the mind beyond the skin

Abstract: PurposeTo construct, from Bateson's social ideas ranging from Naven to the 1979 Mind and Nature, a Batesonian sociocybernetics.Design/methodology/approachThe paper considers Bateson's ideas about the delineation of systems by the observer, as they were taught to his classes in the 1970s and as they were expressed in the so‐called first, 1936 Epilogue to Naven, and shows how these ideas led Bateson to a skeptical, anti‐reificationist social cybernetics.FindingsBateson de‐emphasized system boundaries, instead se… Show more

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Cited by 4 publications
(3 citation statements)
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“…Other notions of second-order cybernetics, most prominently autopoiesis (Maturana and Varela, 1992), emphasize the boundary between system and its environment created and maintained by the system itself, such as cell walls or human skin. Bateson’s opposition toward such boundaries was not that he denied that cells have walls or humans have skin but that those were not the only possible boundaries of living systems (Guddemi, 2007, Star, 1995:19). 3 For him, the whole unit of organism and environment was systemic; and while cutting this unit into system and environment was obviously necessary, this could be done in a multitude of ways depending on the observer’s purpose.…”
Section: From Naturalist Ecology To Ecological Epistemologymentioning
confidence: 99%
“…Other notions of second-order cybernetics, most prominently autopoiesis (Maturana and Varela, 1992), emphasize the boundary between system and its environment created and maintained by the system itself, such as cell walls or human skin. Bateson’s opposition toward such boundaries was not that he denied that cells have walls or humans have skin but that those were not the only possible boundaries of living systems (Guddemi, 2007, Star, 1995:19). 3 For him, the whole unit of organism and environment was systemic; and while cutting this unit into system and environment was obviously necessary, this could be done in a multitude of ways depending on the observer’s purpose.…”
Section: From Naturalist Ecology To Ecological Epistemologymentioning
confidence: 99%
“…Bateson tended more and more towards a ‘scepticism of most of the explanatory methods of the social sciences’ (Guddemi, 2007: 911). In a lecture of 1940, Bateson explains how he became sceptical of the assumption that the objects of sociology could be dealt with ‘as though they were concrete entities’ (Bateson, 2000 [1972]: 83).…”
Section: Systems Theory: a Way Out Of The Shadow Of Sociologymentioning
confidence: 99%
“…Bateson did inspire eminent sociologists such as Erving Goffman (1953Goffman ( , 1974 and Niklas Luhmann (Guy, 2018;Mathur, 2008), but in general, his ideas are not well-known in social science, a fact lamented by Guddemi, who takes the observation a step further: Not only is Bateson not well-known in sociology but only a 'few people are using Bateson in the field of sociocybernetics, the application of cybernetic ideas to the study of social life'. This situation, Guddemi (2007) adds, is 'ironic because the study of human social life was Bateson's forte ' (p. 905).…”
mentioning
confidence: 99%