The structures of Bi3Ru3O11, a = 9.3050(2)Ǻ, Pn3, and Bi2Ru2O7, a = 10.2957(1)Ǻ, Fd3m, have been redetermined by Rietveld analysis of powder neutron diffraction data. For both compounds there is no evidence for appreciable oxygen non- stoichiometry . X-Ray photoelectron spectra of both compounds show unusual line shapes. In the case of Bi3Ru3O11 this is a result of the mixed valency and surface oxidation. In Bi2Ru2O7 final state effects appear to be important.