Lysine is incorporated specifically, and via a symmetrical intermediate, into ring A of vertine [11] and lythrine [10]; the cis-and irawr-quinolizidinones, 25 and 19, are, respectively and specifically, effective precursors for 11 and 10, and the corresponding mono-O-methyl ethers 15,17,21, and 23 are not effectively utilized for alkaloid biosynthesis.